Conversation With a Pastor (Part 4)

After I sent my original email, I did not hear back from him until later in the afternoon the next day.  Frankly, I was surprised that I received a response at all.  However, I didn't tell him I am a Mormon or that I was mad specifically at what he said about my church, and his reaction was interesting.  At first (before he knew which faith I belong to) he was very kind and apologetic for ever hurting my feelings.  Here is the message.  
_________

Mr. Waldram,

I apologize, but I do not remember you. I am not sure of what teaching you are referring to. However, it seems you have very strong feelings regarding the teaching. I will read over the document you sent. I do not remember shrinking back from any teaching I have taught. Also, I do not remember any cowardly actions that I am guilty of... perhaps you could refresh my memory. I am not infalliable but I am ready to defend any teaching in my past to you or anyone else. I look forward to hearing more from you and maybe meeting you again.

B S

_________

I was very happy at his response.  Perhaps he had changed.  Perhaps he was more accepting of other faiths.  However, before I could respond again he wrote me back with the following email.  He had figured out I was a Mormon.

_________

Mr. Waldram,

I read the document you composed. I respect the work you put into the compilation and I will spend some more time reading it. Earlier I questioned which teaching you were refeering to, but no question remains. I deduced you were referring to the series I taught regarding mormonism. You were exactly right when you wrote of my growth as a man fooolowing God. I thank God that I have and continue to grow as I am sure you have as well. I do apologize for some of the personal comments that I made in my humanity. However, I do not agree with the doctrines and or teaching of mormonism. I will continue to teach the dangers and deceptions of the mormons.

If you would expound upon the mormon doctrine of the diety of Jesus Christ and I would enjoy learning more about baptism by proxy, eternal marriage, and mormon eschatology among other aspects of mormonism. I respect your freedom to believe how you want, but please respect my freedom to raise questions about those beliefs. I do not apologize for that. I look forward and welcome continued response on your behalf.

I do have many major biblical and theological disagreements with you document. I will write of just one at present. Your line that the church "can ensure the salvation of its members" is not in line with biblical teaching. I do not believe the Bible teaches that any church can ensure salvation of its members. However, I believe with all my heart that Jesus Christ can ensure salvation of his body, the Church. I choose to leave those assurances up to Jesus.

Thank you,

B

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I find it very amusing that someone who claims that Mormons do not believe in the Bible was able to determine that I am, in fact, a Mormon based solely on the Bible verses that I sent to him.  Perhaps our faith in the Bible is more widely known than people let on.  

Conversation With a Pastor (Part 3)

I have provided quite a thorough background to this story in the last two posts that I have written about it.  Now I feel like it is time to share what was actually said between myself and the pastor.  I want it to be known that I have no issue with what someone wants to believe, so long as they are respectful about it and do not harm someone else while doing so.  The 11th Article of Faith of my church states,

"We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

I thoroughly believe in this statement and do my best to follow it.  However, in relation to this pastor, please remember that he said some pretty terrible things about me and my faith.  He even suggested that we be "run out of town with sticks."  This, to me, is a threat of violence and as such grants him no right to do or say what he did.  Reasons like these have kept this in my mind all of these years and I think it is why I decided to finally contact him.  I do not know why I decided to contact him, or even what I was thinking of prior to doing so, but I do know that I felt as though it was my duty to bear my witness to him that what I believe is true and that what he said about us was wrong.  

In contacting him, and in knowing that he would ignore anything I said if I told her I were a Mormon right off the bat, I decided to say which church I belonged to.  I simply submitted this email and the document that I had prepared.  I also tried to be as pleasant as possible, giving him the benefit of the doubt (all things considered).  

Here is the first email I sent to him.  His response will follow in a later post.  
_____

B,

Several years ago I lived in Columbia Mississippi and had occasion to meet you once or twice. You probably wouldn't remember me but I remember you. It is not always easy to remember what a person says but it is very easy to remember how a person made you feel. Unfortunately, you didn't make me feel that good, and it was mostly because of what you taught and how you taught it. 

However, The Lord taught us to love our neighbors and so I have tried to expand that feeling in myself towards you. Actually, during the times you made me feel bad I still had love for you, but it has grown now. It has grown with an understanding that you were probably doing your best to teach the truth to the best of your ability with the light and knowledge you currently possess. 

I hope the best for you but I also pray that your heart will be open to receive more truth. It is very easy to interpret (or misinterpret) Gods word in many instances, but things that are true never change. Truth isn't subject to opinion. Truth is reason and truth is eternal. 

With this in mind I have compiled many references from the Bible for your consideration. I know that you will fully believe some of these things and some you will utterly reject, yet all are from the same bible and all are valid and true principles.  I would ask that you keep an open mind as you read them. 

My request to you is that you will not shut out anyone, or any church, that believes in things differently from you. All Christians should believe the things in this document, if they profess to follow the bible that is.  Please do not tear down other faiths because of what they teach. I realize your "ministry" is also your livelihood but that doesn't give you the right to deny people a belief in something or to condemn them for not following your faith. It seems strange that someone who professes to follow God and seek truth would deny someone that same privilege simply because it would cost you membership and income. It also seems cowardly to speak harsh words against a faith over the radio or pulpit while utterly shrinking to confront it when you face it in person. I hope that you are better than that now. A follower of Jesus Christ should not be a coward but should be willing to give an answer to those who ask them about their faith. 

I hope this document, if nothing else, will prove to be a useful study tool for you.  However, my wish is that it will open your mind to further light and truth.  If you have questions or comments I would be happy to answer you back. Also, if my words have offended you then I'm sorry, nevertheless they needed to be said.  If fortune favors us both, and you have been enlightened by this, then I will consider that I have gained a brother. I hope it is the latter. 

Best regards,

Hal Waldram

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You can read my document in eBook form at the link below.

The True Church of Jesus Christ

The True Church of Jesus Christ - eBook

My hand writing isn't that easy to read.  That is why I decided to make this into a book.

While serving as an LDS missionary in Mississippi during 2006, I began working on a document dealing with the teachings in the Bible (specifically the King James Version of the Bible).  I originally titled it "29 Points of the True Church."  My main reasoning for writing it was that I wanted to have a reference guide available when dealing with people who accused my church and myself of not believing in or following the teachings of the Bible.  I found it much easier to have a clearly organized document available to turn to rather than having to frantically look through my poorly written (and disorganized) notes.  

This guide is unique in the fact that it uses only the Bible as the supporting work for the doctrines.  Many LDS reference guides utilize all of the Church's Standard Works (The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price) and, while they are useful in many circumstances, the unique situation I was in, of living in the Bible Belt, made me realize I needed something that used only the Bible to back up my claims.  Members of other Christian churches aren't too keen on believing other types of scriptures than the Bible, especially if their pastors or preachers are against them.  

So, with this in mind, I worked on creating a document that would be useful for both myself and for others of my faith who were trying to defend their belief in the Bible.  I gave my early drafts of the work to other missionaries and also to converts to the LDS faith.  Many of those converts have reported that the document has helped them silence critics of their faith by showing them that Mormons really do follow the teachings in the Bible.  

By early 2007 I felt that I had completed the document, having spent around 10 months working on it.  However, as time went by, I felt the need to revise some of the wording and formatting to bring more clarity and readability to it.  I have now released it as an eBook through Amazon and it is now available to read on any Kindle device, including Android devices, iPhones and iPads.  Here is the link.
                                                                    

While it is an eBook, it does not necessarily read like a book or a novel.  It is a study and reference guide and contains several explanations on different passages of scripture.  It is very easy to follow and has an index page so that the reader may quickly jump to a certain section.  

Although I am a Mormon, this book is not endorsed by the Mormon Church.  It is also not an official declaration or document of the church but is simply a compilation of my ideas and findings.  With that being said, I feel that the Latter-day Saint will find great value in using this book.  I also feel that any non-mormon person who is trying to study the Bible will find use of it as there are no references to anything besides the Bible.  I also hope it can be used as a faith building device for any seeker of truth and light.  

Conversation With a Pastor (Part 2)

I concluded the previous post by writing about the time I met the pastor for the church on main street.  I want to reiterate how strange of an experience it was.  A man, full of worldly study and learning and with a college degree allowing him to become a minister, would hardly speak to or make eye contact with two 20 year old Mormon Missionaries.  I'm sure that if he would have wanted he could have probably run us around in circles by using the Bible as his defense.  At that time I wasn't very proficient in my knowledge of the book.  Nevertheless, the pastor seemed to shrink back in fear and acted as though he wanted to fall through the floor so that he didn't have to face us.  It was very bizarre.  

One thing that came from this experience was a realization that I didn't know as much about the Bible as I wanted to and probably needed to.  When someone is raised in a predominate LDS community they don't usually have people forcing different interpretation of the Bible down their throats, and so the study of that book is usually not forefront in one's mind.  Sure, I learned about it in seminary, for a few minutes a day during one of the years I was in high school, but I didn't know it in depth.  Mississippi, and Columbia especially, made me realize that this superficial knowledge of one of the fundamental books of Christendom was not going to cut it in a place that was filled with pastors and preachers.  At this time I decided that I needed to really dive into the Bible, especially the New Testament, and learn what I needed to know.  I focused on the New Testament mainly because the Old Testament is largely looked over in protestant churches.  It is still regarded as important, but not nearly as important as the words of Jesus and the Apostles.  

My original reason for diving into the Bible was that I wanted to be able to hold my own if a good old fashioned Bible Bash were to occur during our proselytizing.  Granted, Bible Bashing has never accomplished much other than bringing anger and contention to a discussion, but I began my study preparing for such an incident.  As I read I began taking notes of what I was reading.  I would write down scriptures that supported the doctrines of Mormonism and, after a time, I realized that this information could be useful for other missionaries that I knew.  I decided to organize this into a paper and titled it The 9 Points of the True Church (or whatever the number was).  As I went on, and as we encountered more opposition to various doctrines of our faith, I realized that I needed to add more "points," and eventually I ended up with 29 points.  

During my reading I realized that many of the words, as they were translated into English, seemed to lose some of their meaning.  A great feature in current versions of the LDS Standard Works is that you will occasionally see HEB or GR in the footnotes of certain verses.  HEB stands for Hebrew and is found in the Old Testament while GR stand for Greek and is found in the New Testament.  I began to see these footnotes showed that there were different meanings that what was written in the English so I decided I needed help in knowing what those words were.  This is when I decided to pick up a Hebrew and Greek concordance at a local Christian book store.  It had the original Hebrew and Greek translations for every word in the King James Bible, and it was an amazing asset.  (There is a link to it at the bottom of my blog)

I worked on this paper for a good 10 months of my mission.  I would use various computers that I came across to work on it.  I wanted to type it so that it could be easily read and printed, and soon the document was 16 full pages of text.  I decided that was too many to print out, as I was rather poor at the time, so I made the font size considerably smaller in order to make it cheaper to print.  Unfortunately my eyes cant see 8 point font that well any longer and I have since changed it back to 12 point font.  I also decided to start each new "point" (now labeled "doctrines" in the document) on a new page and the entire document is now around 40 pages long.  

This document gave me an extreme feeling of confidence in the fact that I knew I could both defend the doctrines of the LDS church (with only the Bible) and, if anyone brought up some superfluous argument, I would have a good rebuttal.  I gave this document to other missionaries as well as some converts to the church, and it proved useful to many of them many times.  One convert even stated that he used it to defend himself when a coworker said that Mormons are crazy because they believe in such and such a thing.  It was nice to know that my work had brought help.  I am also cautious to note that I realize that this work was not entirely my doing.  I am certain that I received a significant amount of help in both finding the information and in organizing it properly.  I look at the document now and know for sure that I could not have done it on my own.  

Unfortunately, I was never able to deliver this document to the pastor.  In fact, I was never able to tell him how wrong he was about us.  I was never able to bear my testimony of Jesus Christ to him, of testify of prophets and apostles being called again after a long night of apostasy.  I wasn't able to bear my witness as an ordained minister of Christ and that has always bothered me.  But, I finally got my chance and I will relate my interaction with the pastor in following posts.  

  

Conversation With a Pastor (Part 1)

During the years 2005, 2006 and 2007 I served as a Missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  I was assigned to serve in the Mississippi Jackson mission, which was a great learning experience, especially since (up to that point) I had never had any serious interaction with people from another faith.  Sure, I knew people that weren't of my faith, but Mississippi gave me a great opportunity to be immersed in the very diverse scene of Christian churches.  I even had an occasion to teach and talk to both Muslims and Hare Krishna followers, but those stories can be saved for another time.  

During the summer of 2006 I was assigned to a small town called Columbia.  Despite the population being low (around 7,000 people), there were a multitude of different Christian churches.  A current Yellow-pages search shows 140 churches total.  This town was also unique in the fact that it brought a level of persecution and opposition to my faith like I have never before (and never since) experienced.  It was amazing to me then, and still is, that despite the sheer number of churches, people (and pastors, we'll get to that in a moment) would often go out of their way to fight against the LDS church.  You'd think that in a town with 140 churches that people wouldn't pay any mind to another one, yet they did and it wasn't positive attention by any means.  

Just outside of Columbia, Mississippi.

To be fair I do need to say that not every person or church in Columbia was terrible to us.  In fact, many were very nice.  However, the few that were opposed to us were very outspoken and bold about it.

At one time we were teaching this younger family and had an interesting experience.  They had three kids, both worked and were both decent people.  They were often very kind to us and even attended church with us several times.  We put a lot of effort into serving this family and did everything we could to make them feel loved and welcomed. One day we went to their house for a scheduled appointment we had with them, yet when we got there we received quite a shock.  They told us that they were contacted by the preacher of a church called Woodlawn Church and that he offered to pay their bills and give them money for every month that they would not let the Mormons come and teach them.  Unfortunately this family accepted the offer and were not very kind towards us after that.  

There was a period during my stay in Columbia that was very interesting.  It occurred during the first few weeks that I was there, and this is the basis for writing this post.  The pastor for The Church On Main Street (another rather prominent and wealthy church) had a strong aversion to Mormons (though I'm not sure why).  He had a weekly Sunday morning radio show that he would put on and he would often discuss different topics in the Bible.  However, for a few weeks' time he decided that he would make his radio show about the evils of Mormonism.  Although I never listened to any of them, several members of my church did and they told us the things that were said.  They were pretty awful, but sometimes ridiculous.  I won't repeat all of them but the pastor did say that people shouldn't let us into their homes because we will bring a curse upon it.  He said that if they talked to us to not let us speak about Joseph Smith because we would hypnotize them and put them under a spell so that they would believe our lies.  He also said that we had horns but that we could hide them.

I wish I were joking about the things he said, but sadly I am not.  He said these things, probably believed them himself and caused a lot of other people to believe them, and it really hindered the work.  I had been on my mission nearly a year at this point and having people talk badly about Mormons wasn't anything new to me, but the manner in which he did this and the effectiveness of his attacks seemed both strange and disconcerting.  I think I'm mostly bothered that people actually believed that we had hypnotic abilities.  They are a superstitious lot there, I suppose.  I even had people ask if they could see my horns at times, and they were being totally serious.  

Now, he said these things and hindered the work, but the worst part is what happened next.  We were in a home one day, talking to a family, when there was a knock at the back door.  The spirit told me, "It is the preacher for the Church On Main Street."  This was strange to me as I couldn't see who was at the door, had never met the man in person and didn't know that these people were part of his church.  His visit to them was a coincidence I suppose, although I don't really believe in coincidence.  They let him into the house and as soon as he saw us his demeanor changed from pleasant to an almost angry fear.  It was as though he couldn't believe that we would have the audacity to be there yet he would barely speak to us or make eye contact with us.  We introduced ourselves but he wouldn't say who he was or that he was their pastor.  Finally, the family introduced him as such.  It was a rather awkward moment and we ended up leaving soon thereafter because we didn't have an appointment with the family and didn't want to be a bother (we just stopped by to see how they were doing).  

Although my encounter with the preacher wasn't a long one, it had a big impact on me.  I always thought it was strange that a man who was so bold in denouncing Mormonism, behind the security of his microphone and pulpit, could become such an utter coward when he met Mormon missionaries in person.  He was a man with a degree in religious studies from some university, had spent many years as a pastor and had probably read and studied the Bible more than I could ever have dreamed of doing at that point.  Yet, even with his education and experience, he was afraid to speak to us.  Perhaps, in his defense, he was simply afraid of being hypnotized.